Curse

Evilsod · May 04, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Perhaps could they be called elite missions because you need to be elite to succeed? Why deny access to it? You don't have to be elite to get there. You have made no point.

Yeah but do that and you'll have the whiney 'why doesn't this sword sell for 1000ecto' elitists complaining.

Nominal_Fee · May 04, 2006, 11:23 PM // 23:23

Based on how they work, you can assume that you have to be an "elite" player to enter. "Elite Mission" sounds better than "Mission For Members Of Really Good Guilds"

Shanaeri Rynale · May 04, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Sorry guys, but PvP elitism has infected PvE. Reading back over some of these comments shows extreme arrogance and ego imho. Why not let people try, sure they will fail 1000 times and whinge but they will get better which is entirely the point.

When I started playing THK was regarded as a monster, it took people days of trying, people refused to go anywhere near mindblades and vengeful aatxxes were just left alone.

But people tried, they learned and they got better and enjoyed themselves more for it.

People play GAMES to have fun, not to grind for hours a time(well maybe obsessive compulsives fall in love with grind), play politics or boast how 'leet' they are.

Do I want to go on an 'elite' mission, sure I do. Will I die and screw things up a couple of times. Yeah probably. But I'd get better.

AN by denying people this fun and forcing people to grind, play politics and encourage delusions of grandeur will completley wreck the good will of so many people in the game. We can't change the mechanism yet, but those who hold the towns can continue to offer free passage to those who wish to have fun, make new friends and be better players.

UndeadRoadkill · May 04, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

UW/FoW were never hard and beyond the mindblades the areas were rather easy given coordination. I see no reason to call them elite, they were simply harder than normal dungeons for the end-game. The elite missions are nothing like them, infact they dwarf them significantly.

Why is access to them exclusive? Why aren't we free to fail miserably as much as we want?

Theos · May 04, 2006, 11:24 PM // 23:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MelechRic

Okay, so these new ones are hard to complete. Cool, I'll take your word for it. So what was so elite about you getting into them? You are elite if you complete them, but not elite by getting into them. You're just a member of a big guild and big alliance that farmed a lot of faction.

You assume to much, I am not saying I am elite in anyway. My entrance into the area was pure luck and me doing it again won't happen for a while. My guild is small, the alliance also small. You also tinker with insulting me with your assumptions.

I was simply pointing out the difference between UW/FoW and these new missions. I am also not in full support of the mechanic to aquiring control of the elite missions but I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

UndeadRoadkill · May 04, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nominal_Fee

Based on how they work, you can assume that you have to be an "elite" player to enter.

Yes, it's funny how that turns out to be an incorrect assumption.

Derek Ravenclaw · May 04, 2006, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Sorry guys, but PvP elitism has infected PvE. Reading back over some of these comments shows extreme arrogance and ego imho. Why not let people try, sure they will fail 1000 times and whinge but they will get better which is entirely the point.

No they won't. Most low-level GvG guilds have been low-level GvG guilds since Ch1 release. It's rare that people get better by failing, in Guild Wars, which is evident in the low number of high-level GvG guilds; most people quit when they fail, then bitch about it on some random forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Do I want to go on an 'elite' mission, sure I do. Will I die and screw things up a couple of times. Yeah probably. But I'd get better.

Go talk to someone in the top alliance then, and see if they'll let you and their friends in the Elite Mission. That's how I did it, again, I'm not in a guild that even has an alliance, and I played Elite Missions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

We can't change the mechanism yet, but those who hold the towns can continue to offer free passage to those who wish to have fun, make new friends and be better players.

This works fine as it is now, and is an actual reward for the guilds that hold top. Seriously, all people do is complain about grind; name me a game that the top position can't be considered held by grind.

Derek Ravenclaw · May 04, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

I was simply pointing out the difference between UW/FoW and these new missions. I am also not in full support of the mechanic to aquiring control of the elite missions but I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

Definitely. If people have a problem with it as it is now, come up with a better system other than OMG GIVE IT TO EVERYONE! like people were complaining about the Worlds At War system.

Gli · May 04, 2006, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I took Casual to mean a player that isn't necessarily unskilled, but inexperienced when it comes to the things required to get past the first room in the Elite mission.

Things like voice communication, the ability to create/function in a twelve man group, knowing how to pull, knowing when to flee, etc., are all vital to even getting past the first room. I don't think they should waste their time letting players who don't fit into this category into the mission, it'd be a waste of the players' times, at which point they would complain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

I like to say that I proved that I earned my way into the elite mission by being recognized as a competant player by the team that was organizing for the mission, and I think I further proved this by being on the team that made it most of the way through the mission, further than anyone else has gotten, so far.

Oh man, after that first post I quoted you're telling usyou didn't even finish the mission? Obviously none of you had what it takes then, you're not the elite crowd this mission was designed for. ANet, quick, find out who these players are and restrict their continued access to that mission before one of them starts complaining about it on the internet!

Really...

Derek Ravenclaw · May 04, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by UndeadRoadkill

Why is access to them exclusive? Why aren't we free to fail miserably as much as we want?

To give the top alliances SOMETHING, maybe? I'd rather have this than like in other games where the top clans get to tax the cities and such. This doesn't impede my gaming, and yet offers something to the top alliances.

Thomas:< · May 04, 2006, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Whatever, my point remains:

Open this mission to the public? they will cry about difficulty. Really...

This is one for those people that know HOW to play the game, and preferbly those with some PvP experience, and that's saying it the nice way.

Edit by Swehurn: Removed referenced deleted post.

UndeadRoadkill · May 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theos

I see it as a, "You need to work for this." Which I respect.

There's nothing wrong with that. I didn't whine about how hard Thunderhead was when I didn't beat it, or complain that not beating it kept me out of other missions. I worked at it until I got good enough to beat it.

There was no one standing outside of Thunderhead saying I couldn't even try it until I joined a bigger guild.

Evilsod · May 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

vtrajan · May 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

There are approximately 13 missions, several competitive missions, and a few cooperative missions.
That amounts up to almost 20 missions that a "casual" player can access.
There are 2 Elite Missions, essentially one since you choose a faction side.

Do you cry to your mother when she doesn't give you the full cookie jar?

Quote:

Derek your still assuming that all people who play the game a few hours a week are no good at the game. Heres a news flash for you, all playing this game for long periods of time has got me is flashier weapons/armour and more knowledge of the enemy AI. Aswell as a few more builds to use and to experiment with.
People who play occasionally won't have these flashy weapons, they'll have the basics, some random collectors sword Customised maybe and the odd build they know works. Does that make them a bad player? Or are you too elitist to mix with this type of gamer?

Exactly.
Knowledge of the enemy AI. Knowledge of builds. Knowledge of what skills work in what situations. Knowledge of the math behind attributes and the numerical damage outcome of skills.

Can you spend 5 hours a week playing this game and tell me what the adrenal scale for warrior skills is like? Do I need to cite further references?

None of us have complained about the difficulty. We -love- it. Several of us don't like it, but most of us that were there had a GREAT time. we would love to do it again.

Sir_BlackJack · May 04, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

So far two people discussing in this thread, have actually played the mission(s).

Why do have the "elite" missions to be only the toy of guilds with enough members? To laugh in the other players faces? We can play this mission you can't!

Imo those elite mission --> Time > Skill + Fun

Derek Ravenclaw · May 04, 2006, 11:32 PM // 23:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Oh man, after that first post I quoted you're telling usyou didn't even finish the mission? Obviously none of you had what it takes then, you're not the elite crowd this mission was designed for. ANet, quick, find out who these players are and restrict their continued access to that mission before one of them starts complaining about it on the internet!

Really...

Obviously we weren't elite enough to beat the mission, but we were elite enough to get further than anyone else. This mission was not intended to be completed by any group, and even we recognize that obviously we need to improve to be elite enough to beat the mission. And right now we don't have access to it because the alliance that I was going in with doesn't hold HzH anymore. You don't hear me bitching because I can't go back in anytime, do you?

People complain either way, the system works fine as it is, leave it.

UndeadRoadkill · May 04, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Ravenclaw

To give the top alliances SOMETHING, maybe? I'd rather have this than like in other games where the top clans get to tax the cities and such. This doesn't impede my gaming, and yet offers something to the top alliances.

Read some post I made a page or two back. I say there is nothing wrong with rewarding alliances.

What we are trying to say is that having access to missions as an exclusive reward is a bad idea.

Sir_BlackJack · May 04, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by vtrajan

Do you cry to your mother when she doesn't give you the full cookie jar?

If I had bought the cookie jar? Yes. Why shouldn't I have access to something I have payed for? Especially with CE ?

Esprit · May 04, 2006, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Elite does not equal being able amass large amounts of faction. It means you can get a big group together.

Elite Missions, at least, should be called 'Alliance Missions', because that's what they really are.

Iskrah · May 04, 2006, 11:35 PM // 23:35

Things are getting clearer. The pro-elitism are now talking about "noobs", about how "they would not be able to get past the first group of mob anyway" and how them "playing would be a waste of time anyway".

That's the kind of crap mentality that game is infested with. When the kid is 12 years old, I can understand such asocial nonsense, but if the person has any experience of organized sport, education or any experience in life for the matter, he would know that losing doesn't mean a waste of time.

Michael Jordan once said that nobody missed more shots than him. It's true. And that's because he kept missing and missing and missing that he finally started hitting them more than anyone.

Some should think about it here. Just talking in general, about mentality, elitism and competition. Because they may know how to farm factions, but they sure don't know how to really get better at anything when they're despising people failing.